Read this after having such a messy day, who knew a person could cry all day long? Work, mothers, exhaustion, political hellscape, check check check. I loved that you went from muddy lotus making to White Lotus, because that Carrie Coon character wrap up was straight up bullshit. She is a phenomenal actress and I was loving the twists and turns of the lady trio but for her to land with "I'm happy you have a beautiful face. I'm happy you have a beautiful life. I'm happy I get a seat at the table" and then her time makes things meaningful nonsense, I was all COME ON. Mike White, we all deserved better than that.
Thank you for celebrating better quality lady friend love and bringing out some Gen X gold for us to enjoy. SE Hinton is still alive and I'm sure she appreciates the love. ♥️
When she started and said she had been feeling sad all week, I thought she was about to lay down some truth telling. It could have been beautiful and raw and honest and an opportunity for the other two to think about the way they’d treated her, but then it took this wild exit into - let’s pretend this is somehow okay because, time, - and I was like, girl, wut? You deserve better. Don’t gaslight yourself. And maybe that was intentional and Mike White wanted her character to accept breadcrumbs in order to keep these two in her life, but when the internet was like, *omg this monologue, this is why women’s friendships are so incredible* that’s when I wondered wtf was going on lol. Cuz no.
It COULD have been amazing and that is such a missed opportunity. But gay men have been known to not totally nail the lady dynamics, for reference see all seasons of Sex and the City.
But yes, having the Internet buy into it is another thing. WUT indeed.
Here's a palate cleanser in case you missed it. Irena and Cynthia are pretty damn funny.
Excellent and yes. I am so ready to give Mike White the props to imagine this was a character choice. I don’t know that it was, I really would have loved to have seen just a tiny bit of supporting evidence, but let’s say it was. She knew these women were not going to keep inviting her to do things if they left the vacation feeling she had been too difficult. Too much of a drain. So she was honest and then she took a hard left and made their shitty behavior okay. Let’s say that’s what happened. The fucking internet celebrating it as beautiful instead of toxic af is still where I lose my mind. And Handmaid’s Tale omg. It’s so good. I will not ruin anything for you by saying there is a moment and I wept and could not stop. Like, I tried and just couldn’t. You’ll know the moment. So. Yeah.
It's been a polarizing time for stories lately...I recently tried to watch "Anora" and turned it off after an hour. It's been 20 years since the best picture made me go "WHY?" (2004's Crash) Perhaps our relationship standards are crashing with the S&P 500.
I'm emotionally ready for Handmaid's now. I'm glad it's still packing a wallop. It's such an important piece of work, especially as it overlaps with reality.
Thank you. This is simply the best essay—I messaged it to my female friends. You capture both the essence and the importance of what friendship truly means. My husband may be my rock, but my female friends are the stars by which I navigate.
Oh, Karen, I love the way you put that. Here’s to all the stars in our skies. Thank you for your kind words and for being here, so glad this spoke to you ✨✨✨
I haven't watched White Lotus but hell yeah to having better friends and better tables. Also now my GenX brain has flashbacks to Dan Quayle and eggs in frying pan and of course "Just Say No" while drinking my morning coffee so thanks for dredging up these memories. I hadn't thought of Dan Quayle in decades...didn't he also feud with Murphy Brown at some point? 😂
When fictional Murphy decided to have a child 'out of wedlock', the very real vice President of the US then chastised her publicly, prompting a hilarious follow-up by fictional Murphy. Maybe this country has always been insane, only now it's more apparent?
I personally think this country has always been "insane" (racist and misogynistic and homophobic and all that), and we were just better at pretending we weren't, and this administration has blown the cover 🤷🏻♀️ I listened to an interview with a black pastor a couple of years ago when he was asked "why are we seeing such a huge spike in police shootings of innocent black people these days" and he replied "it was always like this, now people have phones and can record it so you're more aware of it"
Friends, THIS IS THE JENNY FROM MY ESSAY. Known her since first grade. If we ever get a girls’ trip together with Jessie, I guarantee there are not going to be shenanigans like THAT. Other shenanigans, yes. Gossip and undermining? Hell to the no. Love you, Jenny 🥰
I definitely got a booster when I was preggo - but I think it was whooping cough not measles will definitely let you know.
What’s the one that left a scar on upper arm or though and they stopped giving in 1970? Polio? That’s the one I always wanted but as a 1971 baby never had - as my mom always said be careful what you wish for.
I wish we could have a coffee and talk about the Carrie Coon monologue. I agree with you that her friends are shit, but I have a slightly different interpretation of her motive. What I do know is that it moved me to tears, and I spent the next week thinking about why, since NORMALLY that kind of thing really annoys me.
Anyway everything sucks, I'm exhausted, what else is new?
I wish we could have a coffee and talk about a lot of things!! And yeah, I mean I could absolutely see her deciding she is going to accept that this is who they are and who they are always going to be, but they’ve been through some shit and she doesn’t want to lose them. It makes me sad for her character especially because I don’t get the sense that she has a lot of other close friends in her life. It was more the response to the monologue that killed me. But we really do need to just have a coffee. I may be heading east at the end of May, I’ll keep you posted!
It's also because she wants the moral high ground back. She's the "normal" one, the lefty one, and by rejecting her friends she is not only rejecting herself, but the belief system she clings to. It's super meta given the stuff about religion. So much in there! I definitely feel sad for her character too. I just ended a long friendship because I was being mistreated. It's hard, but sometimes necessary.
What a fantastic essay to’ve stumbled upon this snowy New York morning (wtf, it’s the endtimes, I know it). I use the hardware store analogy all the time when advocating for psych meds—you’d go to the doctor to treat a broken bone, how is treating a broken brain any different? But that analogy to describe seeking friendship from toxic sources is fucking BRILLIANT.
Also, while Coon’s delivery was masterful, I totally agree, it was a lazy copout gaslit little bow on a super toxic trio!
Is it *snowing* in NY?! In April? That’s insane. That’s my hometown, I don’t recall ever having an April with snow ❄️ 😳 And I love your analogy, too! I’m surrounded by people in Los Angeles who are all, “yoga and a good diet and the beach can cure everything!” I’ve seen what clinical depression looks like. I have a close friend who would have died without meds. I pounded on her door a few times in a panic before they found the right combination of meds and support for her. Anyway.
I’m really glad you found this essay, glad you enjoyed and yes, love Carrie Coon, just did not love this monologue shoe-horned in for two women who - in my estimation - deserved a different end to that speech.
I hope you stay warm and I’m so happy to meet you!
I too would be dead without meds. So glad the new administration is so supportive of mental health care (/sarcasm). Re: armageddosnow, I live in Beacon, about two hours up the Hudson from NYC. Let me see if I can post a video from this morning into this comment. Ok maybe I’ll do a quickie note. It’s truly bonkers. But them, so is everything. So glad to meet you too!
Kate, I am still deceased. I’m writing to you from beyond the veil 💀💀🙋🏻♀️
At least we can laugh, they can’t take that.
I really don’t know what I’d do without you, but I don’t intend to find out. You’re as good as they come and I cherish you, plus I know we would throw down for each other in a shootout in Thailand if it came to that. These are important things to know.
Thanks for being the best, and I know you’re gonna stay gold, too. You blind me multiple times a week. It’s not even a thing 💛
Love this. On a side-note: when my daughter turned eighteen and was no longer subject to parental discretion, she had a HUGE lotus plant with 'no mud, no lotus' tattooed on her back. Since then, her whole body has become a screaming billboard for virtuous causes. I don't really get it ( i prefer bumper stickers), but it could be worse, right? Her friends are real people who believe in honesty.
This was so helpful, Ally! I read your piece just before dinner with my partner, and we had a whole conversation about it! I’m ashamed to say that when I watched Laurie’s monologue in White Lotus, I took her as some kind of model and felt kind of bad about myself. It looked like a model of vulnerability that didn’t ask for anything in return and I thought it was moving and thought “I don’t think I could do that.” Your piece snapped me out of that. The thing I’ve settled on for the moment is that I still think the speech itself (or much of it) was a beautiful moment of vulnerability but NOT a good model of friendship. For me, the problem was what came *after* the speech. If, after Laurie had risked herself like that, the others had reciprocated, the relationship might have changed. But it didn’t. The lack of reciprocity should have been information for Laurie that this is not going to be any better moving forward and she should probably find herself some better friends, but we are not given any indication that this is the result so all we’re left with is Laurie accepting her place at the table.
Oh gosh, please don’t feel ashamed to say anything here! We’re just talking 🤷🏻♀️🥹She was vulnerable and honest about how sad she’d been all week, and I thought that part was beautiful, too. She also did so much of the work - she said maybe her expectations had been too high. And that she’d made work her religion and that hadn’t worked out, and she’d fallen in love with the wrong person and clearly that hadn’t worked out, either, and even motherhood hadn’t “saved her” (would have loved to hear a conversation about what she meant by that). But basically none of these things in themselves had given her life meaning, time had done that. And she was just glad Jaclyn had a beautiful face and Kate had a beautiful life and she was grateful to be at the table with them (even if they treated her a bit like the ugly stepsister all week, or the high-powered career woman who clearly wasn’t happy with her choices or her life). And neither of the other two met her there and owned their flaws or their shitty choices or apologized for judging her. I dunno, it just went off the rails for me. It went from, I’m going to be honest and vulnerable to, I’m going to accept not great treatment and call it okay because otherwise…I’ll probably lose these people? I’ve known them forever so I’m going to accept them as the flawed people they are even if they don’t really have my back all the way? I mean, we can all accept people with their limitations, but those aren’t the people I want in my inner circle if their limitations mean they’re going to be kind of shitty to me. So that’s where I had the problem. But I loved her vulnerability in the beginning. I thought it was going to go in a totally different direction. I wish it had! And I’d love to have you at any table, Lexi. You’re a real one ♥️
Aww thank you, Ally. You’re the best. 🥹 I’d love to have you at any table too and I wish Australia and California were closer together!
Yes to all of this analysis! I totally agree. Basically, when I watched the episode, I only noticed the first part, the nice part. I felt some discomfort coming from somewhere but I couldn’t look at it directly. Your essay helped me look at it. That in itself says something interesting to me about my socialisation, which I will need to think more about. Regardless, I’m grateful, as always, for your illuminating perspective!
I wish we lived closer, too! And I think some of my passion around all this comes from accepting breadcrumbs from people and trying to pretend it was a feast for far too long. Or walking on eggshells with people who were volatile, or saying “that’s okay” when it wasn’t. I think women are taught to accept less than we want or to make other people feel comfortable at our own expense or to excuse shitty behavior. I just saw Bill Murray ACCOST Naomi Watts during an interview (Andy Cohen) and she laughed but god. It was that awful fucking laugh where you’re trying to make something okay that isn’t or save someone from the repercussions of their own insane behavior. Anyway. Love that we can connect from the other side of the world, just wish I was there with you!
I really appreciate this conversation and the way the whole essay looks at relationships with people we love/have loved who aren't safe. It took me the longest time to learn that I can still love them and also set boundaries to keep myself safe with/from them. That my boundaries aren't some kind of betrayal or a write-off of them, though they might feel as if they are. Thinking now of the idea that if someone has a problem with your boundaries it's a sign that they are needed. It's how I feel about our country now, and so many people in it. Just can't be in relationship with it the way I once could, no matter all the time we've shared. Thanks for the great read.
You just made me laugh because the person who had the biggest problem with my boundaries was my mom. She considered them a personal affront. It was very much “how dare you draw a line with me” and then a list of reasons my feelings were wrong, and some kind of hell to pay. I suppose I can thank her for teaching me how to hold my ground, but it was so draining at the time.
I think most of us have people in our lives who require boundaries to some degree, usually family members or extended family. I just can’t have those people at my *inner* table, I can’t have them as my closest friends. I want to be able to relax and know I’m safe there, that feels like a reasonable thing to want. I’d rather have fewer people at the table, but ones I know I can trust. And I’m not looking for anything I don’t offer. I think we should all expect loyalty and honesty from our real ones. Please pass the salt, Rita 🥹❤️
🥹 ❤️ for sure! Isn't it great to finally understand that love and relationship are different things? That you can love someone (like a mom or a friend or a partner) and that doesn't entitle them to every part of you? And we get to decide what parts? Dang but I wish someone had told me that much earlier in my life, but it's so great to know now! Thanks for having me at this table with you. It feels safe and comfortable, no qualifiers needed. (I'm only on season 2 of WL. So many people there I wouldn't allow in my house, much less my table!)
We are on the same page re: Laurie's monologue on White Lotus. I have my thoughts on why she might have said all of that, but none of them are particularly positive. It made me feel sad for her character.
It definitely seems like a good time to hold our true friends close!
Yes, I thought the same thing. Like she decided they are who they are and she’s going to accept that, and accept being treated like this sort of pitied, not quite as conventionally pretty, hasn’t landed a man, divorced, NY high-powered career woman who is somehow viewed as the fuckup in this scenario which is kind of hilarious. And very sad for her as a character. But it’s all about perspective and values I guess.
But other people celebrating this as good is where I lost my mind! There’s only so much insanity I can take, Kate 😳
LOL same! The whole "Mike White's a genius" kick that people are on right now is overblown, in my opinion. I love White Lotus as a show, but I'm not ready to proclaim every decision he made with this past season a great one. If people are willing to accept this as good, I guess that kind of explains where we are with so many terrible things going on in life right now. Augh!
"If there was going to be blood in the water, she’d be the one to do the cutting." Beautifully put. I feel the same way about my own mother. I have no trouble understanding that the woman who formed you, tested you relentlessly and broke your heart did not mean to hurt you. Most parents, even dangerous parents, are doing the best they can with the skills they have. You got your mother's best. I'm sorry it wasn't better.
Rona, this made me cry, instantly. It’s such a complicated relationship and I don’t like to present just a snapshot because it wasn’t just pain. Thank you for understanding that and saying it back to me in such a beautiful way. Truly.
This boomer can definitely relate to all of this except I have never watched White Lotus. Loved this essay and definitely needed to read it. My first email this morning was the newspaper obits wanting me to type something nice for tomorrow’s two year anniversary of my oldest friend who drank herself to death. That is not what I want to do first thing in the morning. Thanks so much for putting it all out there. Namaste 🧘♀️
My female friends are nothing like White Lotus, either, but then, nothing about my life is remotely like White Lotus! I enjoy the show, though. And I did enjoy the moment when two of the trio realised the third had voted for potus. (I've had moments here in the UK when it's suddenly dawned that someone I know and like has voted differently to me on something I feel strongly about and felt the bubble burst.)
One hundred percent! I enjoyed this season, too, I know some people didn’t. Personally, I just enjoyed the ride, the characters, the acting, and the hour of escapism every week. We need to take breaks, or I do, anyway. But god help me if my women friends ever treated me like that lol. The Sam Rockwell monologue was the one for me 🤣🤌🏼
And oh my gosh have I had those moments where I’m talking to someone and suddenly realize ohhhh…uh, we have very different views. And also, I don’t want to be in this conversation any longer. There are a lot of straight, white, male yoga teachers in LA who like to talk about how yoga is no place for politics which is code for - this doesn’t affect me and I don’t want to get into all that, or - you’re not going to like my views so I’m not going to announce them. Either way, they don’t want to end up in a conversation with me 😬but it has happened, and I can’t keep my mouth shut. It’s a perimenopause symptom lol. I’m not mad at it. Love to you, Wendy ♥️
Read this after having such a messy day, who knew a person could cry all day long? Work, mothers, exhaustion, political hellscape, check check check. I loved that you went from muddy lotus making to White Lotus, because that Carrie Coon character wrap up was straight up bullshit. She is a phenomenal actress and I was loving the twists and turns of the lady trio but for her to land with "I'm happy you have a beautiful face. I'm happy you have a beautiful life. I'm happy I get a seat at the table" and then her time makes things meaningful nonsense, I was all COME ON. Mike White, we all deserved better than that.
Thank you for celebrating better quality lady friend love and bringing out some Gen X gold for us to enjoy. SE Hinton is still alive and I'm sure she appreciates the love. ♥️
When she started and said she had been feeling sad all week, I thought she was about to lay down some truth telling. It could have been beautiful and raw and honest and an opportunity for the other two to think about the way they’d treated her, but then it took this wild exit into - let’s pretend this is somehow okay because, time, - and I was like, girl, wut? You deserve better. Don’t gaslight yourself. And maybe that was intentional and Mike White wanted her character to accept breadcrumbs in order to keep these two in her life, but when the internet was like, *omg this monologue, this is why women’s friendships are so incredible* that’s when I wondered wtf was going on lol. Cuz no.
Thanks for staying gold, Eileen ♥️
It COULD have been amazing and that is such a missed opportunity. But gay men have been known to not totally nail the lady dynamics, for reference see all seasons of Sex and the City.
But yes, having the Internet buy into it is another thing. WUT indeed.
Here's a palate cleanser in case you missed it. Irena and Cynthia are pretty damn funny.
https://irenasmith.substack.com/p/dear-mike-white-were-two-middle-aged
Hahahahaha. They can come to the table!
Because I’m emotionally not ready to move on to Handmaids Tale yet…one more take on it. The “mistaking proximity for care” part, oof.
https://open.substack.com/pub/zartana/p/laurie-wasnt-grateful-she-was-starving?r=hja9i&utm_medium=ios
Excellent and yes. I am so ready to give Mike White the props to imagine this was a character choice. I don’t know that it was, I really would have loved to have seen just a tiny bit of supporting evidence, but let’s say it was. She knew these women were not going to keep inviting her to do things if they left the vacation feeling she had been too difficult. Too much of a drain. So she was honest and then she took a hard left and made their shitty behavior okay. Let’s say that’s what happened. The fucking internet celebrating it as beautiful instead of toxic af is still where I lose my mind. And Handmaid’s Tale omg. It’s so good. I will not ruin anything for you by saying there is a moment and I wept and could not stop. Like, I tried and just couldn’t. You’ll know the moment. So. Yeah.
It's been a polarizing time for stories lately...I recently tried to watch "Anora" and turned it off after an hour. It's been 20 years since the best picture made me go "WHY?" (2004's Crash) Perhaps our relationship standards are crashing with the S&P 500.
I'm emotionally ready for Handmaid's now. I'm glad it's still packing a wallop. It's such an important piece of work, especially as it overlaps with reality.
'Gay men have been known to not totally nail the lady dynamics' - truer words were never spoken! :-)
Thank you. This is simply the best essay—I messaged it to my female friends. You capture both the essence and the importance of what friendship truly means. My husband may be my rock, but my female friends are the stars by which I navigate.
Oh, Karen, I love the way you put that. Here’s to all the stars in our skies. Thank you for your kind words and for being here, so glad this spoke to you ✨✨✨
I haven't watched White Lotus but hell yeah to having better friends and better tables. Also now my GenX brain has flashbacks to Dan Quayle and eggs in frying pan and of course "Just Say No" while drinking my morning coffee so thanks for dredging up these memories. I hadn't thought of Dan Quayle in decades...didn't he also feud with Murphy Brown at some point? 😂
Oh my god, yes. I completely forgot about the Murphy Brown insanity until you said it. He really was such a tool. Smh. And hi! Hugs! Love!❤️
When fictional Murphy decided to have a child 'out of wedlock', the very real vice President of the US then chastised her publicly, prompting a hilarious follow-up by fictional Murphy. Maybe this country has always been insane, only now it's more apparent?
I personally think this country has always been "insane" (racist and misogynistic and homophobic and all that), and we were just better at pretending we weren't, and this administration has blown the cover 🤷🏻♀️ I listened to an interview with a black pastor a couple of years ago when he was asked "why are we seeing such a huge spike in police shootings of innocent black people these days" and he replied "it was always like this, now people have phones and can record it so you're more aware of it"
Truth. 100%. What we need is a revolution.
Love everything about this post, including the shout out. 💕
Friends, THIS IS THE JENNY FROM MY ESSAY. Known her since first grade. If we ever get a girls’ trip together with Jessie, I guarantee there are not going to be shenanigans like THAT. Other shenanigans, yes. Gossip and undermining? Hell to the no. Love you, Jenny 🥰
And I’m going to get a measles titer test!
Guess who needs a measles vaccine?? I don’t know why I’m surprised, but I am.
I definitely got a booster when I was preggo - but I think it was whooping cough not measles will definitely let you know.
What’s the one that left a scar on upper arm or though and they stopped giving in 1970? Polio? That’s the one I always wanted but as a 1971 baby never had - as my mom always said be careful what you wish for.
I also need the shingles vaccine this year!!!
Smallpox! I’m laughing that you wanted it. That was never a want of mine, but I did want braces and glasses lol.
Yes I desperately wanted braces!!!!
Let me know what happens, I’m so curious! I’ll text you with my results, too. Xo
I wish we could have a coffee and talk about the Carrie Coon monologue. I agree with you that her friends are shit, but I have a slightly different interpretation of her motive. What I do know is that it moved me to tears, and I spent the next week thinking about why, since NORMALLY that kind of thing really annoys me.
Anyway everything sucks, I'm exhausted, what else is new?
I wish we could have a coffee and talk about a lot of things!! And yeah, I mean I could absolutely see her deciding she is going to accept that this is who they are and who they are always going to be, but they’ve been through some shit and she doesn’t want to lose them. It makes me sad for her character especially because I don’t get the sense that she has a lot of other close friends in her life. It was more the response to the monologue that killed me. But we really do need to just have a coffee. I may be heading east at the end of May, I’ll keep you posted!
It's also because she wants the moral high ground back. She's the "normal" one, the lefty one, and by rejecting her friends she is not only rejecting herself, but the belief system she clings to. It's super meta given the stuff about religion. So much in there! I definitely feel sad for her character too. I just ended a long friendship because I was being mistreated. It's hard, but sometimes necessary.
and yes, PLEASE do let me know! <3
Gen X is sooo with you, ponyboy. Exit Nance had me rofl.
I only need ONE Mary Beth! Just one. Thank you lol.
What a fantastic essay to’ve stumbled upon this snowy New York morning (wtf, it’s the endtimes, I know it). I use the hardware store analogy all the time when advocating for psych meds—you’d go to the doctor to treat a broken bone, how is treating a broken brain any different? But that analogy to describe seeking friendship from toxic sources is fucking BRILLIANT.
Also, while Coon’s delivery was masterful, I totally agree, it was a lazy copout gaslit little bow on a super toxic trio!
Is it *snowing* in NY?! In April? That’s insane. That’s my hometown, I don’t recall ever having an April with snow ❄️ 😳 And I love your analogy, too! I’m surrounded by people in Los Angeles who are all, “yoga and a good diet and the beach can cure everything!” I’ve seen what clinical depression looks like. I have a close friend who would have died without meds. I pounded on her door a few times in a panic before they found the right combination of meds and support for her. Anyway.
I’m really glad you found this essay, glad you enjoyed and yes, love Carrie Coon, just did not love this monologue shoe-horned in for two women who - in my estimation - deserved a different end to that speech.
I hope you stay warm and I’m so happy to meet you!
I too would be dead without meds. So glad the new administration is so supportive of mental health care (/sarcasm). Re: armageddosnow, I live in Beacon, about two hours up the Hudson from NYC. Let me see if I can post a video from this morning into this comment. Ok maybe I’ll do a quickie note. It’s truly bonkers. But them, so is everything. So glad to meet you too!
The only thing as bleak as this country is lesbian TikTok. Now you know 😉
Can’t imagine you not staying gold, Ally. The solid stuff never loses its shine. It’s soft, but my god it shines. xo
Kate, I am still deceased. I’m writing to you from beyond the veil 💀💀🙋🏻♀️
At least we can laugh, they can’t take that.
I really don’t know what I’d do without you, but I don’t intend to find out. You’re as good as they come and I cherish you, plus I know we would throw down for each other in a shootout in Thailand if it came to that. These are important things to know.
Thanks for being the best, and I know you’re gonna stay gold, too. You blind me multiple times a week. It’s not even a thing 💛
Love this. On a side-note: when my daughter turned eighteen and was no longer subject to parental discretion, she had a HUGE lotus plant with 'no mud, no lotus' tattooed on her back. Since then, her whole body has become a screaming billboard for virtuous causes. I don't really get it ( i prefer bumper stickers), but it could be worse, right? Her friends are real people who believe in honesty.
Could definitely be worse. If you’re gonna tattoo something on your body, that ain’t bad!
This was so helpful, Ally! I read your piece just before dinner with my partner, and we had a whole conversation about it! I’m ashamed to say that when I watched Laurie’s monologue in White Lotus, I took her as some kind of model and felt kind of bad about myself. It looked like a model of vulnerability that didn’t ask for anything in return and I thought it was moving and thought “I don’t think I could do that.” Your piece snapped me out of that. The thing I’ve settled on for the moment is that I still think the speech itself (or much of it) was a beautiful moment of vulnerability but NOT a good model of friendship. For me, the problem was what came *after* the speech. If, after Laurie had risked herself like that, the others had reciprocated, the relationship might have changed. But it didn’t. The lack of reciprocity should have been information for Laurie that this is not going to be any better moving forward and she should probably find herself some better friends, but we are not given any indication that this is the result so all we’re left with is Laurie accepting her place at the table.
Oh gosh, please don’t feel ashamed to say anything here! We’re just talking 🤷🏻♀️🥹She was vulnerable and honest about how sad she’d been all week, and I thought that part was beautiful, too. She also did so much of the work - she said maybe her expectations had been too high. And that she’d made work her religion and that hadn’t worked out, and she’d fallen in love with the wrong person and clearly that hadn’t worked out, either, and even motherhood hadn’t “saved her” (would have loved to hear a conversation about what she meant by that). But basically none of these things in themselves had given her life meaning, time had done that. And she was just glad Jaclyn had a beautiful face and Kate had a beautiful life and she was grateful to be at the table with them (even if they treated her a bit like the ugly stepsister all week, or the high-powered career woman who clearly wasn’t happy with her choices or her life). And neither of the other two met her there and owned their flaws or their shitty choices or apologized for judging her. I dunno, it just went off the rails for me. It went from, I’m going to be honest and vulnerable to, I’m going to accept not great treatment and call it okay because otherwise…I’ll probably lose these people? I’ve known them forever so I’m going to accept them as the flawed people they are even if they don’t really have my back all the way? I mean, we can all accept people with their limitations, but those aren’t the people I want in my inner circle if their limitations mean they’re going to be kind of shitty to me. So that’s where I had the problem. But I loved her vulnerability in the beginning. I thought it was going to go in a totally different direction. I wish it had! And I’d love to have you at any table, Lexi. You’re a real one ♥️
Aww thank you, Ally. You’re the best. 🥹 I’d love to have you at any table too and I wish Australia and California were closer together!
Yes to all of this analysis! I totally agree. Basically, when I watched the episode, I only noticed the first part, the nice part. I felt some discomfort coming from somewhere but I couldn’t look at it directly. Your essay helped me look at it. That in itself says something interesting to me about my socialisation, which I will need to think more about. Regardless, I’m grateful, as always, for your illuminating perspective!
I wish we lived closer, too! And I think some of my passion around all this comes from accepting breadcrumbs from people and trying to pretend it was a feast for far too long. Or walking on eggshells with people who were volatile, or saying “that’s okay” when it wasn’t. I think women are taught to accept less than we want or to make other people feel comfortable at our own expense or to excuse shitty behavior. I just saw Bill Murray ACCOST Naomi Watts during an interview (Andy Cohen) and she laughed but god. It was that awful fucking laugh where you’re trying to make something okay that isn’t or save someone from the repercussions of their own insane behavior. Anyway. Love that we can connect from the other side of the world, just wish I was there with you!
I really appreciate this conversation and the way the whole essay looks at relationships with people we love/have loved who aren't safe. It took me the longest time to learn that I can still love them and also set boundaries to keep myself safe with/from them. That my boundaries aren't some kind of betrayal or a write-off of them, though they might feel as if they are. Thinking now of the idea that if someone has a problem with your boundaries it's a sign that they are needed. It's how I feel about our country now, and so many people in it. Just can't be in relationship with it the way I once could, no matter all the time we've shared. Thanks for the great read.
You just made me laugh because the person who had the biggest problem with my boundaries was my mom. She considered them a personal affront. It was very much “how dare you draw a line with me” and then a list of reasons my feelings were wrong, and some kind of hell to pay. I suppose I can thank her for teaching me how to hold my ground, but it was so draining at the time.
I think most of us have people in our lives who require boundaries to some degree, usually family members or extended family. I just can’t have those people at my *inner* table, I can’t have them as my closest friends. I want to be able to relax and know I’m safe there, that feels like a reasonable thing to want. I’d rather have fewer people at the table, but ones I know I can trust. And I’m not looking for anything I don’t offer. I think we should all expect loyalty and honesty from our real ones. Please pass the salt, Rita 🥹❤️
🥹 ❤️ for sure! Isn't it great to finally understand that love and relationship are different things? That you can love someone (like a mom or a friend or a partner) and that doesn't entitle them to every part of you? And we get to decide what parts? Dang but I wish someone had told me that much earlier in my life, but it's so great to know now! Thanks for having me at this table with you. It feels safe and comfortable, no qualifiers needed. (I'm only on season 2 of WL. So many people there I wouldn't allow in my house, much less my table!)
We are on the same page re: Laurie's monologue on White Lotus. I have my thoughts on why she might have said all of that, but none of them are particularly positive. It made me feel sad for her character.
It definitely seems like a good time to hold our true friends close!
Yes, I thought the same thing. Like she decided they are who they are and she’s going to accept that, and accept being treated like this sort of pitied, not quite as conventionally pretty, hasn’t landed a man, divorced, NY high-powered career woman who is somehow viewed as the fuckup in this scenario which is kind of hilarious. And very sad for her as a character. But it’s all about perspective and values I guess.
But other people celebrating this as good is where I lost my mind! There’s only so much insanity I can take, Kate 😳
LOL same! The whole "Mike White's a genius" kick that people are on right now is overblown, in my opinion. I love White Lotus as a show, but I'm not ready to proclaim every decision he made with this past season a great one. If people are willing to accept this as good, I guess that kind of explains where we are with so many terrible things going on in life right now. Augh!
"If there was going to be blood in the water, she’d be the one to do the cutting." Beautifully put. I feel the same way about my own mother. I have no trouble understanding that the woman who formed you, tested you relentlessly and broke your heart did not mean to hurt you. Most parents, even dangerous parents, are doing the best they can with the skills they have. You got your mother's best. I'm sorry it wasn't better.
Rona, this made me cry, instantly. It’s such a complicated relationship and I don’t like to present just a snapshot because it wasn’t just pain. Thank you for understanding that and saying it back to me in such a beautiful way. Truly.
Excited about the conversations!
Me, too, me, too!!
This boomer can definitely relate to all of this except I have never watched White Lotus. Loved this essay and definitely needed to read it. My first email this morning was the newspaper obits wanting me to type something nice for tomorrow’s two year anniversary of my oldest friend who drank herself to death. That is not what I want to do first thing in the morning. Thanks so much for putting it all out there. Namaste 🧘♀️
Oh Mary, I’m so sorry about your friend. My heart hurts for you and I’m sending you so much love. I’m glad this helped a little 🥺🙏🏼
This is wonderful. I could go on and explain in so many ways, but I’ll stop there.
Michelle, thank you. I appreciate it so much, and I appreciate you, too 😌
There is a nature preserve about half an hour away from me, Emiquon, and the lotuses are AMAZING. Your piece made me hungry to see them in full bloom.
That sounds incredible. Wish I could go with you 🪷🪷🪷
My female friends are nothing like White Lotus, either, but then, nothing about my life is remotely like White Lotus! I enjoy the show, though. And I did enjoy the moment when two of the trio realised the third had voted for potus. (I've had moments here in the UK when it's suddenly dawned that someone I know and like has voted differently to me on something I feel strongly about and felt the bubble burst.)
Great essay, Ally.
One hundred percent! I enjoyed this season, too, I know some people didn’t. Personally, I just enjoyed the ride, the characters, the acting, and the hour of escapism every week. We need to take breaks, or I do, anyway. But god help me if my women friends ever treated me like that lol. The Sam Rockwell monologue was the one for me 🤣🤌🏼
And oh my gosh have I had those moments where I’m talking to someone and suddenly realize ohhhh…uh, we have very different views. And also, I don’t want to be in this conversation any longer. There are a lot of straight, white, male yoga teachers in LA who like to talk about how yoga is no place for politics which is code for - this doesn’t affect me and I don’t want to get into all that, or - you’re not going to like my views so I’m not going to announce them. Either way, they don’t want to end up in a conversation with me 😬but it has happened, and I can’t keep my mouth shut. It’s a perimenopause symptom lol. I’m not mad at it. Love to you, Wendy ♥️
Love to you too, Ally. Yes! Actually some of those ‘bubble’ conversations happen at Pilates for me. It’s quite a helpful barometer.
And yes to the Sam Rockwell monologue. (And Rick’s facial reactions!)