Ally. Yeah. Thank you for writing about Munro. When the news came out, it hit a chord so deep within me, it triggered all my old abuse wounds. I will never read her work again. I have no desire to delve, or find a place of forgiveness for her betrayal of her child. I can send her the energy of compassion (if it can reach her in the grave) for lacking the wholeness to make good and honorable choices. What was broken in her? Obviously, many things. I have a mother who acted similarly. Did not defend me, but instead defended the boy/man. The weakness, the lack of "mama bear" hurt me deeply, many times. And still, and yet, I love her; it's just that sometimes, I don't like her very much. She's still here. I haven't abandoned her. What I am learning to do, slowly, is accept that she's never going to be the mother I wanted or deserved. She's the mother I have. When you said that you didn't want another mother, that stopped me for a moment. I had to ask myself if that's true for me as well. And yes, it is. My mother is many things. She's sad, she's lost, she's a child in a woman's body. She was hurt, and never recovered. And she's full of life, talented, a lover of people, and art. She gave me gifts, she gave me love, she gave me pain and heartache. I will not parent her anymore. Nothing is straightforward. Our lives are messy. I'm coming to forgiveness, because I see her through a more realistic lens. She gave me life. I'm here. It's enough. And let's hear it for our crews! The people who hold me up when I need it, and step back and watch me shine when I don't. Love to you.
My mom's father died when she was thirteen. She never wanted to talk about it much, the only thing she ever said was that she was relieved because he was very hard on her. But other times she'd talk about how much her parents had wanted her, and how my grandmother went to the priest and asked him to bless her in her efforts to have a baby, and how her parents always said she was the answer to their prayers. So I don't know, seems like you'd feel more than relief to lose your dad at such a young age. Anyway, my mother was not one to delve into what was driving her, stopping her, scaring her etc, but I often felt like she had stopped maturing emotionally at thirteen. I think the trauma and loss made her very controlling, and her unwillingness to have hard conversations or seek help kept her stuck and caused a lot of damage in my family, and certainly between the two of us. She once told me when I was five that she didn't always like me, but she did love me, which was a sort of horrifying thing to hear at that age. She said a lot of things that were pretty awful at various times and she caused me a lot of heartache. But then there were times when she'd brag about me to other people in front of me. She was a tough nut to crack, but she was my nut I guess. I suppose I think most mothers who let their kids down don't do it on purpose, they do it because they don't know how to do it any other way. Or they're too selfish to try to do better, or too stuck, or too stubborn, or too determined to hold onto whatever story they need to tell themselves in order to sleep at night. Sending you love and hugs. Here's to the survivors of the Heartbreaking Moms Club.
I hear you. My mom's dad, my grandfather, died when she was six. And she's spent her whole life romanticizing him. And she grew up to be a 6-year-old in a woman's body. She's never matured, and her wounding is so deep. I'm sad for her. It's kept her stuck, and in relationships that weren't healthy. This thing: "I suppose I think most mothers who let their kids down don't do it on purpose, they do it because they don't know how to do it any other way." And this, too: "Or they're too selfish to try to do better, or too stuck, or too stubborn, or too determined to hold onto whatever story they need to tell themselves in order to sleep at night." But it's more the first, than the second. My mom keeps asking me why I haven't written about her. I can't yet. I don't feel like I can tell my whole story without hurting a great deal. I'm not willing to do that. So I'll wait until I can. Love and hugs back to you, dear Ally.
I hadn't heard about Alice Munro and I just can't wrap my head around it. My mother is a tiny little wisp of a person but she has always made it known that if anyone harms me or my sister, she will hunt them down and rip their head off, and I have no doubt that she will do exactly that.
I'm glad you have your people, and I'm glad your kids have a mother like you. Here's to all the moms who have managed to heal their own wounds and who make sure their kids never doubt their love for even a second.
I love that you have a mom like that. It was always very odd, my mother would sometimes jump in the ring for me, and sometimes not. Unfortunately, the times I really needed her help, she just couldn't do it. I think she needed to "edit out" the most awful things in life. I'm still baffled sometimes when I think about the battles she chose to wage on my behalf and the ones where she really let me down. But I think it's very much about what you said - she would never have the hard conversations, never consider therapy, never examine her own trauma, limitations or addiction, so it tracks. She sort of willfully dismissed anything she couldn't control and got through by drinking herself into oblivion. Not the best way to proceed. Thanks for your thoughtful comments, and for being here <3
I, too, suspect Munro must have had some idea of what was happening in her house. She would've had to have been really checked out not to, and as a writer—as someone who is fine-tuned to the most minute details of life through observation and conversation—I just can't accept that she didn't know. Asking her daughter about why that character committed suicide would have been too much of a coincidence. It's painful to think that her daughter saw that moment as a way in, a life boat of sorts, and instead she was rejected.
I have this memory from middle school when I was absolutely miserable because my classmates were jerks to me in every way imaginable. I cried a lot and made up illnesses so I could stay home, and I hated going to bed on Sunday nights because that meant Monday was coming and I'd have to go to school. I was so clearly depressed because of how mean these kids were to me, and I remember my mom being really stressed out about it. I don't remember when she said this to me, but at some point she told me that she didn't take me to see a psychologist or therapist because she'd had a tough time in school, too, and managed to make it through without seeing someone. I remember being surprised to hear her say that, and also pissed? Because I think it would have helped me, regardless of what her experience had been. I don't know what prevented her from moving past her own experience so that she could help me deal with what I was going through in a better way. It's frustrating to think about even all these years later.
I'm so glad your kids have someone who would support them no matter what, and I'm so glad you have people who would do the same for you!
Aw Kate, that hurt my heart to think about you suffering like that. Kids can be so mean, it's a wonder any of us make it through middle school. I'm sorry your mom didn't get you some support. I wonder if it's especially hard to see your child going through the same things you went through. Maybe it's so triggering you don't think clearly, or your rage or grief boils to the surface and clouds your thinking. I have no idea and I am definitely not excusing it, just thinking "out loud" about what might motivate such disappointing choices. "I got through without help so I decided you could, too" is such an odd way to think about things, regardless of why. I think with my own mother, her denial muscle was so strong she just willed herself to turn her back when men started doing things and saying things there was no way I could understand. This was NYC so we would often be walking on the street together, and I remember how men used to say things to her and how she would just hold her head up and ignore it, but when I got to be about twelve, sometimes those comments would be directed at me and she would be irate, but she would direct that rage at me. It was confusing to say the least. Meanwhile, my fourteen year old got harassed on the street a few weeks ago (insert ALL my rage here) and I did and am doing all the things for her I wish my mom had done for me. It makes me furious that this is the crap we all continue to deal with, but at least I feel some relief that I can hopefully help her manage it. It isn't just genes that get passed down, I think that's what I'm trying to say. Sometimes we're healing the stuff our mothers didn't heal. Huge hugs and lots of love to you. Thank you for your thoughtful comments which got my wheels spinning, and thank you for being here <3
That's so true about continuing the healing process. Half the battle, I think, is having the awareness and agency to feel like you can do something about it, which I hope we have a bit more than our mothers did!
Thank you so much, Kate. Yeah, this one was jagged on the way out. It's so strange for me because I miss my mother so much and lost her in such an awful way, but all these other things are also true. It's not always easy to get my arms around all of it.
I hope you are feeling better Ally. I know grief more intimately now than I could have ever imagined just a few years prior. When you mention your sisters, your crew, I know just how much of a balm that can be. There has to be some antidote, and for me it’s been a few friends with unfeigned love when, time and again, I’ve been maligned by my own folks. When I was trying to make sense of an unexpected divorce, I had one parent tell me to “take a walk.” And another parent whose idea of support was to sneer in derision at my attempts to heal. Anyway, thank you for always being honest and vulnerable in your essays, they always give voice to what I struggle to utter.
Oh Corey, I’m so sorry. It’s awful enough to go through a loss and upheaval you weren’t expecting, but then to feel a total lack of support from the people who are “supposed to” care the most is just gutting. I’m so glad you have some really good friends like I do, it makes all the difference. I really think it’s the best stuff in life. And I’m sending you lots of love as you continue to heal and find your way forward. You seriously never know what’s around the bend, that’s the one thing I DO know. Hugs 🤍
I think one of the most damaging myths of our culture is that mothers love their children, as if love is instinctual. It is not. We have an instinct to survive, not to love. The capacity to breed does not go with the capacity to love. Unfortunately. As a child of one of these mothers, we can spend a lifetime redefining love in order to convince ourselves that our mothers loved us. Or we can accept she was not capable of that action, and it has nothing to do with us.
There's a lot of (devastating) truth in this. Ultimately, people are just people whether they're mothers or not. There are certainly people who don't feel empathy, and getting pregnant and having a baby isn't going to change that - it's not like some maternal instinct grows while the baby grows. And you're right about redefining love, too, and trying to twist it (or contort yourself) so you can convince yourself you were loved. I think my mother's capacity to fully love anyone (and certainly me) was limited until the very end of her life. There was something about having everything taken from her that seemed to finally change things. It was like she finally got the download on her deathbed. Thanks for your very thoughtful comments, Rebecca, and hugs.
Oh this essay brought up a lot lot of conflicting emotions. Thank you for your articulate bravery. Alice Munro was a fave of mine in my 20’s. I liked a lot of false things in my 20s. As for the mother thing - as a woman in my 60s who thought mothering would heal all my wounds, fill all my emotional holes, well it didn’t. Long story short, some women should just not have children cause they don’t get that it must be about the child first. It just must. That’s what it’s all about. Putting someone else’s needs above your own. Such an anti feminist thing to admit 🤷♀️. But I think it to be true
Yeah, I mean I think for me, I was really ready to have my kids. I was 36 when I had my son, and 39 when I had my daughter. I wanted kids and I wanted to be a mom, and I tried to create the kind of childhood for them I wished I'd had myself. I didn't get everything right, but I loved them (and love them) with everything I've got, every day. I think you're right, that motherhood isn't for everyone. It asks a LOT of you, and if you aren't ready, that's rough on everyone, especially the kids. And I agree, it's really hard to find any kind of balance these days. There isn't enough support, paid maternity leave, etc. It's very hard to care for yourself and your kids and keep a roof over everyone's heads and so on. Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Cathy, and thank you for being here <3
So many emotions upon reading your brave essay, and all of them are complex and confused. I want to smack your mother for not being there when you needed her most. I want to smack my own late mother for not only ignoring the abuse done to her daughters, but at times actively enabling it. I want to smack Andrea Skinner’s mother for being a selfish, insecure wrack of a human who also wrote remarkably astute stories about the lives of women and girls (when I first read Munro, I thought her an inspiration and fellow feminist).
We all deserved better mothers and why where these particular people so fucking fucked up? Because they were fucked up, to the core. And in some cases (like mine) they passed their fucked-upness right on to their children. I remember my mother slapping my eight-year-old little sister when she cried about her visiting elementary school teacher being tasked to ‘tuck her into bed’. She didn’t like the smell of his breath and she didn’t like the way he touched her. I remember feeling very grown up, laughing about her ‘hysterics’ with the adults. I also remember feeling nothing but resentment and jealously when my older, clearly pedophilic brother (at sixteen) took nude pictures of my two little sisters, seven and nine at the time, but didn’t want to take any pictures of eleven-year-old me with my early breasts of fat. Wasn’t I sexy or desirable? Apparently not. Chubby me was invisible and held no power at all.
Yikes…. this is soooo hard to write.
My point is (if I have a point) that we are conditioned for conditional love. I wanted nothing more than for the people in charge to love (i.e protect) me, and, in turn, blamed the victims and enabled their predators. I can only guess that the same --times one thousand -- is true of our mothers and grandmothers. Who knows what kind of abuse they were subject to? Not making excuses; just trying to understand.
And why are we not turning this conversation around and talk about the predators themselves? They are, for the most part, MEN. Men who think that anything that gives them pleasure, ought to give pleasure to all involved. Who never consider the alternative. Who never walk through a dark park feeling anything but invincible. They are at the heart of the problem, to my mind.
Our mothers were bad, but let’s not give another free pass to FATHERS.
I feel like I could write a whole dissertation about your comments here. Or sit over coffee with you and talk about this for hours. First of all, I'm so sorry for what you went through, you and your sisters. I'm sorry your mom didn't step in and protect you, and I'm sorry that you had to survive and seek love any way you could, even if it meant laughing with the grownups. So important to have compassion for the kid versions of ourselves, doing the very best we could in a world that made no sense at all. One of the things I most looked forward to when I was maybe fifteen or sixteen, was creating a home one day that would feel safe and secure. I didn't exactly know how I would do it, I just wanted to know what that would feel like. I wanted out of the circus and the pain.
I think what you've said about our mothers grappling with their own experiences and heartbreaks and frustrations is true. My mom had so much of her own trauma she never dealt with, and it wreaked havoc on all of us. She kept a lot of things "close to the vest", did not believe in "airing dirty laundry" and expected everyone to toe the line. She needed everything to look perfect even if it was rotting inside. And she was enraged, but the rage had nowhere to go, so she unleashed it on me. Maybe she knew I'd love her, anyway, because kids always do.
As for men, my god I am not giving them a free pass (I don't think you think I am, I'm just joining you in your rightful stance). Andrea Skinner's stepfather is as twisted and despicable as they come. And FAR too many of us have dealt with men who take what they want even if we're saying no, fighting back, fighting for our lives. It makes me sick to my stomach that we haven't come further, especially as I have a daughter heading out into this world. Even here on Substack I've gotten messages from men that launched in with "Hey, pretty" and you know what? NO. Like, fuck right off. I have zero patience and tolerance for that at this point in my life. I turned off DMs because I don't even want to see that.
But you know what? I raised a good boy. He's seventeen and he's the kid who sees a drunk girl at a party and gets her home safely before anyone can take advantage of her.
Anyway, to be continued, because I actually have to go and get my son at the airport right now. But I really appreciate everything you shared here. Truly, thank you. And I look forward to diving into more of these issues. I'm sending you so much love. Thank you for being here <3
Oh, Ally, your reply means the world to me. As soon as I pushed the dreaded ‘post’ button, my anxiety began to spike about the ‘giving men a free pass’ line, fearing it might be misinterpreted. In no way did I mean to distract from the pain our mothers have caused us by pointing to the trauma men inflict INSTEAD. It was more of an ALSO thought (and because you’re a brilliant and compassionate human being you got it). Like you, I felt compelled to read every article and post related to Skinner’s essay, and what stood out to me was the lack of outrage directed at Andrea’s other biological parent – her father. When his son told him about the abuse, I ached for him to speed to Andrea’s rescue, but he chose not to confront his ex-wife and/or the monster and remained ‘friendly’ with the two of them instead. Didn’t he have an equal responsibility to protect, if not avenge, his daughter? He tolerated (encouraged?) her spending her summers with a known abuser. It boggles the mind. But then again, it doesn’t, because in general, men are held to a different standard. Society doesn’t expect very much from them.
I’m glad and not at all surprised that you raised two beautiful and responsible people. My own grown daughter is a fearless social-justice warrior who thinks nothing about hiking Nepal’s Annapurna trail by herself (aaaaaaahhhhh!). She didn’t inherit my victim mentality or any of my many, many fears, because (I like to think) she has always been unconditionally loved and supported. Same for your kids. So, things can and do get better. But also (as you said) we have a lot further to go.
Thank you for writing this: ‘I've gotten messages from men that launched in with "Hey, pretty" and you know what? NO. Like, fuck right off.’ It made my day. I wish I’d had your confidence and clarity when I was your age (I’m sixty!) because when I was your age I would have probably responded, “Thank you for finding me appealing. What can I do for you in turn?”
Enjoy the time with your lovely son. Much, much love and keep writing,
I mean, I don’t even know what to say about her dad. He sent her older sister with her to make sure she was never alone with her stepdad again. That was his solution. And never said a world to his ex-wife whom he remained friendly with? And had lunch with her (Munro) and they just never talked about their youngest daughter? I just cannot. It is all so hurtful and horrible and here this awful man Fremlin sends letter to the whole family threatening to expose these pictures and I really wonder even at THAT point did her dad defend her? Ugh the whole thing makes me so sad. Anyway we are 100% on the same page and please don’t ever hesitate to comment from your heart, I think it’s highly unlikely I’d misunderstand you and even if I did we’d just talk about it :) xox
I will say this right at the beginning, this piece truly blown me away.
I have a daughter and whilst I'm not a violent man, I must say that the day something like that happens to my daughter I'll probably turn into one, but hopefully we'll never really find out how violent I'd become.
It's quite coincidental that I felt similar rage actually almost exactly when I saw notification you published this as in my feed an article came out about a man who murdered 3 women and left father and husband with nothing. I don't really recommend reading it, but the story goes like this -
The wife and two youngest daughters of John Hunt, a BBC racing commentator, have been killed in a crossbow attack at their home.
-
I try to be forgiving but definitely not like Jesus preached and if I could kill that man by simply wishing it, I will wish it right here, right now no remorse. I personally don't see any reason why he deserves to be spared. I am all for whole society paying for institutional care for people with addiction problems etc, but you take someone's life on purpose that's it, you're out. Game over.
I don't think your essay is about this though and I must apologise for this rage. Since this was a horrible act against three women, I thought I'll mention it, because quite frankly I was scared how enraged I was and I absolutely didn't know them. God help me if anything even remotely close happens to my daughter.
I also must apologise as what I just said probably sounds wrong and I should respect that such words maybe cause pain, but every time I thought about that father and husband, chances are his thoughts are not far from the ones I had and I think they are valid.
I'm sorry for this Ally. I'm also sorry for disappointment Alice Munro caused you. I personally try to appreciate good people whether it's music or painting. I don't think I'd ever listen to any song I love if it turned out its creator was a monster. So MOBY please don't fuck it up :)
On the funny side, I thought how funny it was your post sounded like some metal band's name lol. Little did I know when I just glanced at the notification that there's darkness in today's essay.
But you have your crew! That's amazing! I absolutely loved that part! I really struggled with today and in a weird way, your swearing here and fierce love you have for your children redeemed me from the hypothetical violence I was manifesting after reading that article.
I often truly despise humans like Mr Smith did in The Matrix, but thank God for people like you, or my daughter or a handful of other people I still keep the faith.
I really love your essays and I after today's piece, I appreciate you and your writing even more. The way you'd show up for your kids is the best thing I heard today. I love how you give me hope every week through your brilliantly written essays.
Namaste.
All the best to you, your family and crew. Always.
There’s nothing worse than being confronted with violence and worrying about your kids in a violent world. My son texted me a couple of years ago during a lockdown at his high school. He was scared, and information from the school was confusing and horrifying as someone had called in a bomb threat, but they didn’t want to evacuate because sometimes shooters do that to get everyone outside and then they start shooting. I can’t talk about this for too long because the rage I feel that we have not done a single fucking thing in this country to keep our children safe at school is deep. In this case it was a false alarm, but this is a ridiculous way to live.
Anyway, I am glad the essay gave you some peace while you were feeling your own outrage, and I’m sending you and your daughter lots of love and the wish that we make the world a better place for all our children 🤍
Thank you so much Ally. I was a bit scared to paste my comment as it felt tainted with rage. Oh yes your essay gave me peace, I keep forgetting that there's good in the world. Thank you for reminding me. And thank you for always wishing me and my daughter well. I totally understand you and the outrage. And thank you for being the writer I can believe in. The disappointment from loving a writer only to find out she or he was a monster is heartbreaking.
Namaste.
Love and peace to you and your family and crew always 🙏
Ally. Yeah. Thank you for writing about Munro. When the news came out, it hit a chord so deep within me, it triggered all my old abuse wounds. I will never read her work again. I have no desire to delve, or find a place of forgiveness for her betrayal of her child. I can send her the energy of compassion (if it can reach her in the grave) for lacking the wholeness to make good and honorable choices. What was broken in her? Obviously, many things. I have a mother who acted similarly. Did not defend me, but instead defended the boy/man. The weakness, the lack of "mama bear" hurt me deeply, many times. And still, and yet, I love her; it's just that sometimes, I don't like her very much. She's still here. I haven't abandoned her. What I am learning to do, slowly, is accept that she's never going to be the mother I wanted or deserved. She's the mother I have. When you said that you didn't want another mother, that stopped me for a moment. I had to ask myself if that's true for me as well. And yes, it is. My mother is many things. She's sad, she's lost, she's a child in a woman's body. She was hurt, and never recovered. And she's full of life, talented, a lover of people, and art. She gave me gifts, she gave me love, she gave me pain and heartache. I will not parent her anymore. Nothing is straightforward. Our lives are messy. I'm coming to forgiveness, because I see her through a more realistic lens. She gave me life. I'm here. It's enough. And let's hear it for our crews! The people who hold me up when I need it, and step back and watch me shine when I don't. Love to you.
My mom's father died when she was thirteen. She never wanted to talk about it much, the only thing she ever said was that she was relieved because he was very hard on her. But other times she'd talk about how much her parents had wanted her, and how my grandmother went to the priest and asked him to bless her in her efforts to have a baby, and how her parents always said she was the answer to their prayers. So I don't know, seems like you'd feel more than relief to lose your dad at such a young age. Anyway, my mother was not one to delve into what was driving her, stopping her, scaring her etc, but I often felt like she had stopped maturing emotionally at thirteen. I think the trauma and loss made her very controlling, and her unwillingness to have hard conversations or seek help kept her stuck and caused a lot of damage in my family, and certainly between the two of us. She once told me when I was five that she didn't always like me, but she did love me, which was a sort of horrifying thing to hear at that age. She said a lot of things that were pretty awful at various times and she caused me a lot of heartache. But then there were times when she'd brag about me to other people in front of me. She was a tough nut to crack, but she was my nut I guess. I suppose I think most mothers who let their kids down don't do it on purpose, they do it because they don't know how to do it any other way. Or they're too selfish to try to do better, or too stuck, or too stubborn, or too determined to hold onto whatever story they need to tell themselves in order to sleep at night. Sending you love and hugs. Here's to the survivors of the Heartbreaking Moms Club.
I hear you. My mom's dad, my grandfather, died when she was six. And she's spent her whole life romanticizing him. And she grew up to be a 6-year-old in a woman's body. She's never matured, and her wounding is so deep. I'm sad for her. It's kept her stuck, and in relationships that weren't healthy. This thing: "I suppose I think most mothers who let their kids down don't do it on purpose, they do it because they don't know how to do it any other way." And this, too: "Or they're too selfish to try to do better, or too stuck, or too stubborn, or too determined to hold onto whatever story they need to tell themselves in order to sleep at night." But it's more the first, than the second. My mom keeps asking me why I haven't written about her. I can't yet. I don't feel like I can tell my whole story without hurting a great deal. I'm not willing to do that. So I'll wait until I can. Love and hugs back to you, dear Ally.
I hadn't heard about Alice Munro and I just can't wrap my head around it. My mother is a tiny little wisp of a person but she has always made it known that if anyone harms me or my sister, she will hunt them down and rip their head off, and I have no doubt that she will do exactly that.
I'm glad you have your people, and I'm glad your kids have a mother like you. Here's to all the moms who have managed to heal their own wounds and who make sure their kids never doubt their love for even a second.
I love that you have a mom like that. It was always very odd, my mother would sometimes jump in the ring for me, and sometimes not. Unfortunately, the times I really needed her help, she just couldn't do it. I think she needed to "edit out" the most awful things in life. I'm still baffled sometimes when I think about the battles she chose to wage on my behalf and the ones where she really let me down. But I think it's very much about what you said - she would never have the hard conversations, never consider therapy, never examine her own trauma, limitations or addiction, so it tracks. She sort of willfully dismissed anything she couldn't control and got through by drinking herself into oblivion. Not the best way to proceed. Thanks for your thoughtful comments, and for being here <3
I, too, suspect Munro must have had some idea of what was happening in her house. She would've had to have been really checked out not to, and as a writer—as someone who is fine-tuned to the most minute details of life through observation and conversation—I just can't accept that she didn't know. Asking her daughter about why that character committed suicide would have been too much of a coincidence. It's painful to think that her daughter saw that moment as a way in, a life boat of sorts, and instead she was rejected.
I have this memory from middle school when I was absolutely miserable because my classmates were jerks to me in every way imaginable. I cried a lot and made up illnesses so I could stay home, and I hated going to bed on Sunday nights because that meant Monday was coming and I'd have to go to school. I was so clearly depressed because of how mean these kids were to me, and I remember my mom being really stressed out about it. I don't remember when she said this to me, but at some point she told me that she didn't take me to see a psychologist or therapist because she'd had a tough time in school, too, and managed to make it through without seeing someone. I remember being surprised to hear her say that, and also pissed? Because I think it would have helped me, regardless of what her experience had been. I don't know what prevented her from moving past her own experience so that she could help me deal with what I was going through in a better way. It's frustrating to think about even all these years later.
I'm so glad your kids have someone who would support them no matter what, and I'm so glad you have people who would do the same for you!
Aw Kate, that hurt my heart to think about you suffering like that. Kids can be so mean, it's a wonder any of us make it through middle school. I'm sorry your mom didn't get you some support. I wonder if it's especially hard to see your child going through the same things you went through. Maybe it's so triggering you don't think clearly, or your rage or grief boils to the surface and clouds your thinking. I have no idea and I am definitely not excusing it, just thinking "out loud" about what might motivate such disappointing choices. "I got through without help so I decided you could, too" is such an odd way to think about things, regardless of why. I think with my own mother, her denial muscle was so strong she just willed herself to turn her back when men started doing things and saying things there was no way I could understand. This was NYC so we would often be walking on the street together, and I remember how men used to say things to her and how she would just hold her head up and ignore it, but when I got to be about twelve, sometimes those comments would be directed at me and she would be irate, but she would direct that rage at me. It was confusing to say the least. Meanwhile, my fourteen year old got harassed on the street a few weeks ago (insert ALL my rage here) and I did and am doing all the things for her I wish my mom had done for me. It makes me furious that this is the crap we all continue to deal with, but at least I feel some relief that I can hopefully help her manage it. It isn't just genes that get passed down, I think that's what I'm trying to say. Sometimes we're healing the stuff our mothers didn't heal. Huge hugs and lots of love to you. Thank you for your thoughtful comments which got my wheels spinning, and thank you for being here <3
That's so true about continuing the healing process. Half the battle, I think, is having the awareness and agency to feel like you can do something about it, which I hope we have a bit more than our mothers did!
Awww Ally— I can feel from here the way this one came out of your heart with blades for hands. It’s beautiful and awful and real and aching.
Sending you a big, big hug. (And it really would be okay to show up on my doorstep without calling first 😉)
Thank you so much, Kate. Yeah, this one was jagged on the way out. It's so strange for me because I miss my mother so much and lost her in such an awful way, but all these other things are also true. It's not always easy to get my arms around all of it.
(And haha, same goes for you :)) Hugs and love xx
Thank you for that, Ally ❤️
I hope you are feeling better Ally. I know grief more intimately now than I could have ever imagined just a few years prior. When you mention your sisters, your crew, I know just how much of a balm that can be. There has to be some antidote, and for me it’s been a few friends with unfeigned love when, time and again, I’ve been maligned by my own folks. When I was trying to make sense of an unexpected divorce, I had one parent tell me to “take a walk.” And another parent whose idea of support was to sneer in derision at my attempts to heal. Anyway, thank you for always being honest and vulnerable in your essays, they always give voice to what I struggle to utter.
Oh Corey, I’m so sorry. It’s awful enough to go through a loss and upheaval you weren’t expecting, but then to feel a total lack of support from the people who are “supposed to” care the most is just gutting. I’m so glad you have some really good friends like I do, it makes all the difference. I really think it’s the best stuff in life. And I’m sending you lots of love as you continue to heal and find your way forward. You seriously never know what’s around the bend, that’s the one thing I DO know. Hugs 🤍
I think one of the most damaging myths of our culture is that mothers love their children, as if love is instinctual. It is not. We have an instinct to survive, not to love. The capacity to breed does not go with the capacity to love. Unfortunately. As a child of one of these mothers, we can spend a lifetime redefining love in order to convince ourselves that our mothers loved us. Or we can accept she was not capable of that action, and it has nothing to do with us.
There's a lot of (devastating) truth in this. Ultimately, people are just people whether they're mothers or not. There are certainly people who don't feel empathy, and getting pregnant and having a baby isn't going to change that - it's not like some maternal instinct grows while the baby grows. And you're right about redefining love, too, and trying to twist it (or contort yourself) so you can convince yourself you were loved. I think my mother's capacity to fully love anyone (and certainly me) was limited until the very end of her life. There was something about having everything taken from her that seemed to finally change things. It was like she finally got the download on her deathbed. Thanks for your very thoughtful comments, Rebecca, and hugs.
Oh this essay brought up a lot lot of conflicting emotions. Thank you for your articulate bravery. Alice Munro was a fave of mine in my 20’s. I liked a lot of false things in my 20s. As for the mother thing - as a woman in my 60s who thought mothering would heal all my wounds, fill all my emotional holes, well it didn’t. Long story short, some women should just not have children cause they don’t get that it must be about the child first. It just must. That’s what it’s all about. Putting someone else’s needs above your own. Such an anti feminist thing to admit 🤷♀️. But I think it to be true
Yeah, I mean I think for me, I was really ready to have my kids. I was 36 when I had my son, and 39 when I had my daughter. I wanted kids and I wanted to be a mom, and I tried to create the kind of childhood for them I wished I'd had myself. I didn't get everything right, but I loved them (and love them) with everything I've got, every day. I think you're right, that motherhood isn't for everyone. It asks a LOT of you, and if you aren't ready, that's rough on everyone, especially the kids. And I agree, it's really hard to find any kind of balance these days. There isn't enough support, paid maternity leave, etc. It's very hard to care for yourself and your kids and keep a roof over everyone's heads and so on. Thanks for your thoughtful comments, Cathy, and thank you for being here <3
So many emotions upon reading your brave essay, and all of them are complex and confused. I want to smack your mother for not being there when you needed her most. I want to smack my own late mother for not only ignoring the abuse done to her daughters, but at times actively enabling it. I want to smack Andrea Skinner’s mother for being a selfish, insecure wrack of a human who also wrote remarkably astute stories about the lives of women and girls (when I first read Munro, I thought her an inspiration and fellow feminist).
We all deserved better mothers and why where these particular people so fucking fucked up? Because they were fucked up, to the core. And in some cases (like mine) they passed their fucked-upness right on to their children. I remember my mother slapping my eight-year-old little sister when she cried about her visiting elementary school teacher being tasked to ‘tuck her into bed’. She didn’t like the smell of his breath and she didn’t like the way he touched her. I remember feeling very grown up, laughing about her ‘hysterics’ with the adults. I also remember feeling nothing but resentment and jealously when my older, clearly pedophilic brother (at sixteen) took nude pictures of my two little sisters, seven and nine at the time, but didn’t want to take any pictures of eleven-year-old me with my early breasts of fat. Wasn’t I sexy or desirable? Apparently not. Chubby me was invisible and held no power at all.
Yikes…. this is soooo hard to write.
My point is (if I have a point) that we are conditioned for conditional love. I wanted nothing more than for the people in charge to love (i.e protect) me, and, in turn, blamed the victims and enabled their predators. I can only guess that the same --times one thousand -- is true of our mothers and grandmothers. Who knows what kind of abuse they were subject to? Not making excuses; just trying to understand.
And why are we not turning this conversation around and talk about the predators themselves? They are, for the most part, MEN. Men who think that anything that gives them pleasure, ought to give pleasure to all involved. Who never consider the alternative. Who never walk through a dark park feeling anything but invincible. They are at the heart of the problem, to my mind.
Our mothers were bad, but let’s not give another free pass to FATHERS.
I feel like I could write a whole dissertation about your comments here. Or sit over coffee with you and talk about this for hours. First of all, I'm so sorry for what you went through, you and your sisters. I'm sorry your mom didn't step in and protect you, and I'm sorry that you had to survive and seek love any way you could, even if it meant laughing with the grownups. So important to have compassion for the kid versions of ourselves, doing the very best we could in a world that made no sense at all. One of the things I most looked forward to when I was maybe fifteen or sixteen, was creating a home one day that would feel safe and secure. I didn't exactly know how I would do it, I just wanted to know what that would feel like. I wanted out of the circus and the pain.
I think what you've said about our mothers grappling with their own experiences and heartbreaks and frustrations is true. My mom had so much of her own trauma she never dealt with, and it wreaked havoc on all of us. She kept a lot of things "close to the vest", did not believe in "airing dirty laundry" and expected everyone to toe the line. She needed everything to look perfect even if it was rotting inside. And she was enraged, but the rage had nowhere to go, so she unleashed it on me. Maybe she knew I'd love her, anyway, because kids always do.
As for men, my god I am not giving them a free pass (I don't think you think I am, I'm just joining you in your rightful stance). Andrea Skinner's stepfather is as twisted and despicable as they come. And FAR too many of us have dealt with men who take what they want even if we're saying no, fighting back, fighting for our lives. It makes me sick to my stomach that we haven't come further, especially as I have a daughter heading out into this world. Even here on Substack I've gotten messages from men that launched in with "Hey, pretty" and you know what? NO. Like, fuck right off. I have zero patience and tolerance for that at this point in my life. I turned off DMs because I don't even want to see that.
But you know what? I raised a good boy. He's seventeen and he's the kid who sees a drunk girl at a party and gets her home safely before anyone can take advantage of her.
Anyway, to be continued, because I actually have to go and get my son at the airport right now. But I really appreciate everything you shared here. Truly, thank you. And I look forward to diving into more of these issues. I'm sending you so much love. Thank you for being here <3
Oh, Ally, your reply means the world to me. As soon as I pushed the dreaded ‘post’ button, my anxiety began to spike about the ‘giving men a free pass’ line, fearing it might be misinterpreted. In no way did I mean to distract from the pain our mothers have caused us by pointing to the trauma men inflict INSTEAD. It was more of an ALSO thought (and because you’re a brilliant and compassionate human being you got it). Like you, I felt compelled to read every article and post related to Skinner’s essay, and what stood out to me was the lack of outrage directed at Andrea’s other biological parent – her father. When his son told him about the abuse, I ached for him to speed to Andrea’s rescue, but he chose not to confront his ex-wife and/or the monster and remained ‘friendly’ with the two of them instead. Didn’t he have an equal responsibility to protect, if not avenge, his daughter? He tolerated (encouraged?) her spending her summers with a known abuser. It boggles the mind. But then again, it doesn’t, because in general, men are held to a different standard. Society doesn’t expect very much from them.
I’m glad and not at all surprised that you raised two beautiful and responsible people. My own grown daughter is a fearless social-justice warrior who thinks nothing about hiking Nepal’s Annapurna trail by herself (aaaaaaahhhhh!). She didn’t inherit my victim mentality or any of my many, many fears, because (I like to think) she has always been unconditionally loved and supported. Same for your kids. So, things can and do get better. But also (as you said) we have a lot further to go.
Thank you for writing this: ‘I've gotten messages from men that launched in with "Hey, pretty" and you know what? NO. Like, fuck right off.’ It made my day. I wish I’d had your confidence and clarity when I was your age (I’m sixty!) because when I was your age I would have probably responded, “Thank you for finding me appealing. What can I do for you in turn?”
Enjoy the time with your lovely son. Much, much love and keep writing,
Helia
I mean, I don’t even know what to say about her dad. He sent her older sister with her to make sure she was never alone with her stepdad again. That was his solution. And never said a world to his ex-wife whom he remained friendly with? And had lunch with her (Munro) and they just never talked about their youngest daughter? I just cannot. It is all so hurtful and horrible and here this awful man Fremlin sends letter to the whole family threatening to expose these pictures and I really wonder even at THAT point did her dad defend her? Ugh the whole thing makes me so sad. Anyway we are 100% on the same page and please don’t ever hesitate to comment from your heart, I think it’s highly unlikely I’d misunderstand you and even if I did we’d just talk about it :) xox
Hi Ally,
I will say this right at the beginning, this piece truly blown me away.
I have a daughter and whilst I'm not a violent man, I must say that the day something like that happens to my daughter I'll probably turn into one, but hopefully we'll never really find out how violent I'd become.
It's quite coincidental that I felt similar rage actually almost exactly when I saw notification you published this as in my feed an article came out about a man who murdered 3 women and left father and husband with nothing. I don't really recommend reading it, but the story goes like this -
The wife and two youngest daughters of John Hunt, a BBC racing commentator, have been killed in a crossbow attack at their home.
-
I try to be forgiving but definitely not like Jesus preached and if I could kill that man by simply wishing it, I will wish it right here, right now no remorse. I personally don't see any reason why he deserves to be spared. I am all for whole society paying for institutional care for people with addiction problems etc, but you take someone's life on purpose that's it, you're out. Game over.
I don't think your essay is about this though and I must apologise for this rage. Since this was a horrible act against three women, I thought I'll mention it, because quite frankly I was scared how enraged I was and I absolutely didn't know them. God help me if anything even remotely close happens to my daughter.
I also must apologise as what I just said probably sounds wrong and I should respect that such words maybe cause pain, but every time I thought about that father and husband, chances are his thoughts are not far from the ones I had and I think they are valid.
I'm sorry for this Ally. I'm also sorry for disappointment Alice Munro caused you. I personally try to appreciate good people whether it's music or painting. I don't think I'd ever listen to any song I love if it turned out its creator was a monster. So MOBY please don't fuck it up :)
On the funny side, I thought how funny it was your post sounded like some metal band's name lol. Little did I know when I just glanced at the notification that there's darkness in today's essay.
But you have your crew! That's amazing! I absolutely loved that part! I really struggled with today and in a weird way, your swearing here and fierce love you have for your children redeemed me from the hypothetical violence I was manifesting after reading that article.
I often truly despise humans like Mr Smith did in The Matrix, but thank God for people like you, or my daughter or a handful of other people I still keep the faith.
I really love your essays and I after today's piece, I appreciate you and your writing even more. The way you'd show up for your kids is the best thing I heard today. I love how you give me hope every week through your brilliantly written essays.
Namaste.
All the best to you, your family and crew. Always.
🙏
Hi Peter,
There’s nothing worse than being confronted with violence and worrying about your kids in a violent world. My son texted me a couple of years ago during a lockdown at his high school. He was scared, and information from the school was confusing and horrifying as someone had called in a bomb threat, but they didn’t want to evacuate because sometimes shooters do that to get everyone outside and then they start shooting. I can’t talk about this for too long because the rage I feel that we have not done a single fucking thing in this country to keep our children safe at school is deep. In this case it was a false alarm, but this is a ridiculous way to live.
Anyway, I am glad the essay gave you some peace while you were feeling your own outrage, and I’m sending you and your daughter lots of love and the wish that we make the world a better place for all our children 🤍
Thank you so much Ally. I was a bit scared to paste my comment as it felt tainted with rage. Oh yes your essay gave me peace, I keep forgetting that there's good in the world. Thank you for reminding me. And thank you for always wishing me and my daughter well. I totally understand you and the outrage. And thank you for being the writer I can believe in. The disappointment from loving a writer only to find out she or he was a monster is heartbreaking.
Namaste.
Love and peace to you and your family and crew always 🙏